Talk:Absolute Virtue
Developer Video L2oV9SpSPfA Br1qcYgRj8A hrEghtulAHs r9_7uvn6UoU The AV Video Discussion Thoughts by others: :*02/13/2008: Developer Video available at Official Website :*Judging from the new Developer Video, the proper strategy seems to be: 1.Defeat as many of Jailer of Love's pets as possible to weaken his regen 2.Make sure everyone has baraero spells to weaken his wind spells 3.And most importantly, what we apparently haven't noticed all this time, is that every time Absolute Virtue uses a job ability such as 2hrs or Call Wyvern, all job ability timers are reset, virtually letting players 2hr whenever he does. This was posted straight to the article page within a very short time. Discussion, and actual attempts at AV, need to be made before posting 30 second conclusions from a video to the article as fact. Tahngarthor 17:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC) :I agree, SE can make 2hours on a 10sec recast if they wanted too. Wait till someone actually tests these things before trying to pass them off as fact. Emperordragon 17:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC) I saw on the four videos, I paused at the first point that the camera zoomed in on the AV fight on each video. What I saw was the day changing from ice to lightning. And also when AV used 2-hours. The significance? I believe this factors into how the defeated him. Possibly using the nukes of the day(Tier I, II, III, IV or even AM) weakens AV, along with the use of Baraero to weaken his wind based spells, and of course the 2-hour theory all factor in on how to beat him, some how. I can't test this because I don't have sea, but I think its a good theory to go on. Jagtarro 04:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC) From the looks of it, it seems either one of the two cases (these coming from comments on KillingIfrit, as well as my own observations and what was said above): either his use of a 2-hour resets all player 2-hours, OR, when he uses a 2-hour, players use their 2-hours to counteract and lock that without having used it previously. (From the video alone, Hina (BRD/???) uses Soul Voice after each of AV's 2 hours, so it could be that both cases play into one another). Also of note, as again pointed out on KillingIfrit, the players in the video used the highest-tier elemental spells available correlating to the in-game day on both the Jailer AND AV (I noticed someone using ancient magic, but I can't recall if it was the Jailer portion of the video, or AV's, but regardless I would assume those would be useful in the fight as well). Seems VERY basic, I know, but what everyone is forgetting is that SE said this has existed for the longest time, and it isn't something that they've hacked just to beat and show off. --Snojoex 18:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC) * Several people are also seen using tier I and II spells as well though. Additionally, be sure to watch the other language videos- They are not exactly the same. Tahngarthor 18:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC) After watching the video, I was able to pull the following data from it, being relevant to anything or not" Party Setup had at minimum: Iws = blm Arefelie = RDM/NIN Oruu = blm Sibigobi = blm Roopelope = whm Astri = DRG Rly = PLD/NIN Chakiki = RDM Hina = BRD Popumyonmapu = BLM Houjuhkye = BRD Mukopekko = rdm whm or pld Dreamrainbow = SAM Yanono = DRK Rasopomosopo = SMN Basu = WHM Elmaulle = PLD/NIN Ronana = RDM or sub RDM Hupapa = BRD Eraphe = MP user (used yag drink) Florensz = RDM PLD or WHM Ruriri = WHM Lalala = BRD Fannie = THF or /thf During the video, 9 people 2hour'd once, 3 people 2hour'd twice, and 3 people 2hour'ed THREE TIMES indicating either a) your job abilities are restored after a certain point or b) the fight lasted at least 6 hours. NOTE: although there was a dragoon in the party (call Wyvren) he did not use Spirit Surge, maybe because this is still considered the DRG 2hour according to AV? or because its an older video before Spirit Surge was introduced? As for the order of the fight, according to what was shown in the video, was Invincible by the PLD Elmaulle. Later on, right after a BRD had finished casting ballad on his party, AV used Soul Voice (connection? maybe, maybe not) which was immediately followed by Elmaulle using Invincible again, as well as 3 Benedictions, 3 manafonts, 1 Meikyo Sushui, Call Wyvren, Astral Flow, 2 Soul Voice, Blood Weapon, and the last one being Chainspell. Later on, AV seems to randomly pop Chainspell (last 2hour used on him?) which was followed by the players using Chainspell, Manafont, and Soulvoice. Later on, AV used Call Wyvern as a 2hour (2hour animation) followd by the players using Manafont, Invincible, Astral Flow, Call Wyvern, Chainspell, Soul Voice, Manafont, and someone using flee as the camera fades out. I noticed that after each time AV 2houred, many players used manafont, but fewer used soul voice and chainspell. I also noticed no use of Familiar, Hundred Fists, Mijin Gakure, Eagle Eye Shot, Perfect Dodge, Might Strikes, or another of the post CoP jobs 2hours. A possible guess is that AV can only use the 2hours of the jobs around him? Using a 2hour after AV does may lock that 2hour from him? And once AV 2hours, it restores 2hours of the players around him if the 2hour can be used by AV? These are just guesses based on the small amount of data i have seen on this video I rocky 18:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Just a note that while the video shows them using 2 hours right after each other. the game day and time are diffirent in all 3 instances. the first is at lightning 6:46, then it cuts to lightning 5:02, then on to ice 12:06 I think the baraero part of the video is trying to say to stack on wind resistance in your equipment, not just with resistance buffs. I'm not in an HNM LS yet, but do tanks pay attention to their elemental resist levels at all on those battles? Mifune 20:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Going off of the data I Rocky gathered it seems possible that AV can only use 2 hours of the players around him. Perhaps so many players hit their 2 hours seemingly without reason because if their 2 hours are on recast he can't use them except for the last one used. Then maybe when AV uses a 2 hour it resets everyone's 2 hour also. Just a hypothesis. --Aramiltaru 21:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Maybe the reason behind using 2hr after his is that he uses your 2hr? Meaning, if your timer is up he can use it, if it is down he can't. To me this would make sense of every benediction always being used. I would advise caution about "2hrs of those around him" and "timing" theories because the video was only 4 minutes long and meant to illustrate the point that it is possible to use 2hrs more than once during a fight against him. It was a cut and edited video, so he may have used Familiar, Mijin Gakure, etc during the entire fight. Also, this may have escaped the notice of people because with the exception of using Familiar on powerful mobs as a BST, I use a 2hr and don't bother checking the timer for at least 90 minutes or so. --Ctownwoody 21:31, 13 February 2008 (EST) Ok I posted this in the Absolute Virtue/Developer Strategy that I put together. But I will post it here for everyone to see also: :*The video appears to be a bunch of random scenes put together. ::*They do not look like they are in order, and may actually be of multiple fights. :*Main job / Sub jobs should be taken a closer look at. :*Example of a problem with the video: ::*Astri :::*Jailer of Love section of the video: Astri starts casting Thundaga III on the Ru'phuabo. Thundaga III makes his main job Black Mage. :::*Absolute Virtue section of the video: Astri uses Call Wyvern. Call Wyvern makes his main job Dragoon. :*Video timeline looks like this: ::*JoL: :::*Windsday: 20:24 > 23:50 :::*Iceday:3:05 ::*AV: :::*Iceday: 23:56 (day changed to Lightningday) :::*Lightningday: 6:45 > 5:01 :::* Iceday: 12:04 -- 14:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC) Old Rumors and Strategies Since the first time AV was spawned, there have been various rumors and theories over how to weaken or defeat it. These deal particularly with the problem of AV's Two Hour abilities and highly damaging spells. :*Various rumors among others included Ebon Panels, attacking with jailer weapons, killing various NMs in the same area, or quickly damaging it below 95%. At one point, the tactic that appeared the most successful in sealing his damaging moves was repeatedly killing the wynavs he summons at the same time; some Linkshells were able to kill AV several times by using this strategy. :*On occasion, it has been known to appear to stop using 2-hour abilities, but still cast magic and perform TP moves. When this occurs, dropping Absolute Virtue's HP to 79% causes it to begin casting Meteor and Comet constantly without the aid of Manafont and Chainspell. Allowing Absolute Virtue to heal back to 100% HP will not fix this. :*Currently, Absolute Virtue is an enigma. Strategies that were once successful have been rendered incapable by continued modifications of Absolute Virtue's behavior. It remains to be seen if the development team will reveal the secret, much like they did with the Goblin Drink recipe. :*According to the developers, you can lower its Auto-Regen by defeating as many of the pets of Jailer of Love as possible, and by using elemental spells corresponding with the current Vana'diel day. "How to Enfeeble Absolute Virtue The regen effect will be cut in half by defeating as many of the Ru'phuabos, Qn'xzomits, and Qn'hpemdes summoned by the Jailer of Love as possible. In addition, using an elemental based attack that corresponds to the current day of the week (i.e. using Fire spells on Firesday) will stop the remaining regen effect." -from http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/event/vanafes2006/vanafesta2.html --Avanent 02:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC) ::*This was mentioned under the AV Video Discussion up above, they very first point. This is not an old rumor or suggestion, however, it was just further brought into light with the video. --Snojoex 03:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Experiments I read on a Japanese forum that AV doesn't reset two hours. They all used their two-hours shortly after AV used Chainspell and the only noticeable reset was one of the RDMs who had just used Convert had their Convert timer back up again. This made me think that perhaps AV's "two-hour reset", that everyone is so sure is key to the fight, works in a similar way to Random Deal, in the sense that it will not always reset abilities. Imagine if AV used Convert, ohohoho... Woooodum 12:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Just a quick suggestion Please, for at least the day, lock the AV main page so people don't pass off this-or-that as fact, or at least put a request to have all changes discussed on the talk page.--Lordshadow 13:10, 13 February 2008 (EST) Possible Way to prevent deadly 2H Here is another one that someone on KI pointed out, "I have limited experience playing with AV, we never get it to pop, but from what I have read, and seen, he seems to 2hour in groups, pairs, or 3's. I will come back to that in a moment. But, from my experience in this game, Hundred Fists is one of the most deadly 2 hours a mob can have. So, if the current theory is match his 2hour, and he can't hour, why no mnk in the alliance, or mijin gakure also being deadly, so why no nin? I often see him to mighty strikes, then hundred fists. Or he does chainspell, then manafont to be able to spam meteor. So, you need to avoid the really bad 2hours. Perhaps..certain 2hour's trigger other 2hours. Like, maybe he does Soul Voice --> Benediction, or does chainspell --> manafont, or Call Wyvern(mob drg 2hour)--> mijin gakure. So, maybe the trick isn't to match ALL his 2hours, just certain ones, which can then stop the trigger which will activate the devastating 2hours." based on the player vids and then the SE vid... it seems to hold trueEternallight 22:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Also the other less obvious thing is the redmages actually meleeing in the video, i dunno about any of the other mages, but they sure aren't resting >.> I dunno if that has any purpose but ya.. weird. (--Tenchikurai 00:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)) I have to say that the person who stated the 2hr theory has a very good point. Notice how the WHM is outside of PT and curing them. Since the WHM isn't in the main PT fighting him, he isn't able to use Benediction. With the PT alliance mostly mage jobs other than WHM, and no real DD like MNK and NIN, sounds like a plausible reasons. I"m glad they made this :). Now maybe we all can have a chance to have some of the most godly items in the game. ^^ Lazera 01:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC) There IS a WHM in the tank PT hence the baraero spell and the fact that SOME WHM 2HR caught the PT If you go and watch all 4 AV videos You will notice the people standing around the tank PT is not a part of the alley all they are there to do is film the fight DE AV = BLM Avertan EN AV = WHM Deitan JP AV = WHM Richude FR AV = WHM Ailliva There is also 2 possible timelines < cause of ice n thn day > so timeline is either ICE > THN day or THN > ICE day but seeing as they killed JoL on ICE day and there is no other weather elements MY guess is its a ICE > THN day fight We also can conclude that these videos are in random timeline There is very little DD in the whole alley short of tank PT Similar to how some HNMLS tanks Tiamat Cerberus Khiamara JP AV 2:58 IN ICEDAY 14:40 <2HR SPAM> camera change JP AV 3:16 IN THNDAY 13:53 <2HR SPAM> camera change JP AV 3:36 IN ICEDAY 16:53 <2HR SPAM> ----------------------------------------- EN AV 2:51 IN THNDAY 06:50 <2HR SPAM> camera change EN AV 3:14 IN THNDAY 05:05 <2HR SPAM> camera change EN AV 3:35 IN ICEDAY 12:08 <2HR SPAM> ----------------------------------------- FR AV 2:52 IN THNDAY 08:55 <2HR SPAM> camera change FR AV 3:16 IN ICEDAY 16:15 <2HR SPAM> camera change FR AV 3:33 IN THNDAY 05:05 <2HR SPAM> ----------------------------------------- DE AV 2:51 IN THNDAY 08:55 <2HR SPAM> camera change DE AV 3:16 IN ICEDAY 14:41 <2HR SPAM> camera change DE AV 3:37 IN THNDAY 16:55 <2HR SPAM> (--LeonCloud 05:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)) ----- Pivoted differently, and assuming the clips are all from the same fight, on the same in-game days, we find that there were a total of nine 2-hour spam instances, as follows: ICEDAY 12:08 <2HR SPAM> @ EN 3:35 (it is said this might actually be Lightsday) : Absolue Virtue uses Call Wyvern. :: Popumyonmapu uses Manafont. :: Ryl uses Invincible. :: Rasopomosopo uses Astral Flow. :: Astri uses Call Wyvern. :: Arefelie uses Chainspell. :: Hina uses Soul Voice. :: Sinigobi uses Manafont. ICEDAY 14:40 <2HR SPAM> @ JP 2:58 ICEDAY 14:41 <2HR SPAM> @ DE 3:16 (same as last) ICEDAY 16:15 <2HR SPAM> @ FR 3:16 ICEDAY 16:53 <2HR SPAM> @ JP 3:36 THNDAY 05:05 <2HR SPAM> @ EN 3:14 : Absolute Virtue uses Chainspell. :: Popumyonmapu uses Manafont. :: Hina uses Soul voice. :: Chakiki uses Chainspell. : Absolute Virtue starts Casting Aero V. THNDAY 05:05 <2HR SPAM> @ FR 3:33 (same as last) THNDAY 06:50 <2HR SPAM> @ EN 2:51 : Absolute Virtue uses Soul Voice. :: Popumyonmapu uses Manafont. :: Basu uses Benediction. :: Roopelope uses Benediction. :: Iws uses Manafont. :: Dreamrainbow uses Meikyo Shisui. :: Astri uses Call Wyvern. :: Ruriri uses Benediction. :: Rasopomosopo uses Astral Flow. :: Sibigobi uses Manafont. :: Oruu uses Manafont. :: Hupapa uses Soul Voice. :: Hina uses Soul Voice. :: Yanono uses Blood Weapon. :: Chakiki uses Chainspell. :: Houjuhkye uses Soul Voice. : Absolute Virtue starts casting Maiden's Virelai. THNDAY 08:55 <2HR SPAM> @ FR 2:52 THNDAY 08:55 <2HR SPAM> @ DE 2:51 (same as last) THNDAY 13:53 <2HR SPAM> @ JP 3:16 THNDAY 16:55 <2HR SPAM> @ DE 3:37 What I'd really like to know (and I don't have the time to do this, myself, ATM) is *who* is using *which* 2-hr on each of these instances? This could give some insight as to the possibility of which 2-hrs might have been reset, and what-not. One idea I'm toying with is the possibility that the video's "everyone spams 2-hrs" clip is showing a test, by the dev team, to find out *which* 2-hrs are needed to block AV's. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the only player 2-hrs that get reset (assuming that happens, at all) are the ones that are necessary to block AV's 2-hrs. I've taken some quotes from the Absolute_Virtue/Developer_Strategy page to fill in the English video's info. --Alephnot 20:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC) SE sure has taken a lot of care to show us multiple instances of 2hr chains. It could be that AV's 2hrs reset ours. However, how is it we've never noticed this before? So if its not that then what? I have 2 ideas on this matter: 1) our 2hrs are only unlocked for a few seconds, before AV takes his next action. 2) the 2hrs are only unlocked 1 at a time depending on AV's 2hr, so the order of 2hrs shown in the AV video would be very important to note if that is the case. So if Absolute Virtue uses Soul Voice. Then it goes: Manafont>> Benediction>> Benediction>> Manafont>> Meikyo Shisui>> Call Wyvern>> Benediction>> Astral Flow>> Manafont>> Manafont>> Soul Voice>> Soul Voice>> Blood Weapon>> Chainspell>> Soul Voice Just a thought --Lord Cowman III 13:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC) --Alephnot 21:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC) Although it may not be a big deal, Call Wyvern is not a 2hr... The only reason I bring this up is because it seems the first 2hr spam was prompted by it. I'm not sure what it means, but it just seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. Woodenjigsaw 13:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC) Call Wyvern was originally the Dragoon's 2hr, they may have changed it for players but to AV it still is the Dragoo. 2hr. --Lord Cowman III 13:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC) § Hello!... I just wanted to ask if anyone can explain why this statagy would not work... I have found you can not 2hr while being stunned so my suggestion to a party setup is this... 5x MNK/DNC 5x NIN/DNC 4x SMN 4x BLU/NIN At the start of the battle smn will give mnk rolling thunder to stun AV. Each monk will then 2hr and engae AV if not engaged. Party setup is like this 2xMNK/DNC 2xDNC/NIN each Dnc is decacated to keeping his mnk alive. 1xSMN and 1xBLU. The last party will have 1xmnk 1xdnc and 2xblu and 2xsmn Blu mage will ready these spells Head Butt, Temporal Shift, Blitzstrahl, Frypan, Tail Slap. Blu mages will spam these spells to keep AV stuned. It resists Stun; you should read the article before posting. Exzir 17:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Could someone please test for me a 75 mnk with 2hr and rolling thunder if the mob has a chance to even attack at all. Please advise is haste is needed and if other eq are needed to stop a mob from even getting a sigle hit off Thankx again. Rolling thunder does not = "En-stun" or whatever you want to call it; if it does there is a very very low chance of stunning. I have not seen it stun at all, shock spikes on the other hand can sometimes. So this won't work....obviously Bind?! Someone casts bind at some point. This seem a little odd to anyone else? Maybe, in this case, it bound something other than AV himself?--Lordshadow 13:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC) :It looks like the RDM's are casting random spells to keep hate. They cast Tier 1 nukes, Sleep I & II, Dispel, Bind. -- 09:24, 14 February 2008 (EST) Direction / Timing? There have already been some excellent theories posted above about the use of 2HR's and whatnot. Also thanks to Spops we have the entire chat log available to read. However each time I watched it I couldn't help but think they were trying to show us something more than just the chat log. There are 4 things in that corner which they repeatedly zoom in on. 1. Chat log, 2. Vana'diel Day, 3. Game Clock, 4. Compass. A few people have already posted about the fact that they only cast spells corresponding to that days element, even if they are low level spells. Example: on Iceday they cast all ice spells including the lower teir Blizzard, Blizzard II, etc. However as we know from crafting, somehow the elements actually tie into the compass points (N NE E SE S SW W NW). Also I feel possibly there is something to do with the timing of things based on the game clock or things used withing a certain amount of time after something has happened. I wish I had time to watch the video 100 times like some of you have, maybe someone who does could pay close attention to the compass and game clock to see if we are missing anything there. Calypso 10:32, 14 February 2008 (EST) There is a forum post out there with the fights entire chat log i just dont remember where atm i think KI and as for the spell casting its not un common to cast spells against a monster that its weak to and would do more dmg to it like fighting sky gods and since AV seem to be wind based i guess the reason for the ice n thn spam -SE mentioned this as one of the methods to minimizing AVs regen rate whats more interesting to note is the fact that later in on the AV fight when ppl do pop their 2hrs there is little or no spell cast to go with it and since there isnt much dmg coming from DD what exactly is wearing it down and if u see all 4 AV clips in certain scenes u can see the same set of ppl either rdm blm or brd popping 2hrs without little break in between (--LeonCloud 23:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)) What if it's something like the Brisingamen? Much of the video is filmed during game night, with a majority of the 2-hours used during sunlight hours. Maybe he restores more MP at night than HP? --Kaalitenohira 03:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Bracelets in the last scenes of the fight , before AV is defeated , there are floating bracelets around his wrists that dont appear in any other picture of him . they are a bunch of rectangles rotating around his arms/wrists . --MIKUMARU 15:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC) They appear after some point in the battle with him, the linkshell Apathy of Remora saw them as well when they killed him with the tele-dem wall glitch. --Wegente 15:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC) Slideshow I took a look at the video in slo-motion. about 3/4 speed. At key intervals I captured a particular frame when I thought something noteworthy. You can take a look at http://gallery.mac.com/mestinkbad#100055. A few things to point out. * The battle starts at the end of iceday. Durning iceday the focus using Blizzard and Ice spells. Once it moves to Lightningday they change to Thunder spells * They use Sleep, Sleep II, possibly Blind and Dispel to interrupt or alter AV's behavior (I think) * They generally use 2 hr abilities in moderation, until after it blacks out and back in. Then it looks like just about the whole caboose uses there 2hr abilities. I suspect this is because AV's health has reached a critical point where it's behavior changes. * Strangely toward the end it fades out and back in and it's the middle of iceday again. * It's finished by a weapon skill of all things. * They sure keep Utsutsumi (SP?) up as much as possible. * I'm sure there's more... but I can't recall... --Laraul 10:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :On the Debuffs, that's simply the RDM tanks keeping hate. Debuffs generate alot of enmity if spammed. --Sharaa 17:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC) Misc The information on the main page, regarding damage, is wrong. Regular AV hits are in the 250's on any decent PLD. Auroral Wind is usually 300-400 damage. With sentinel up, AV and wynas usually hit in the 10's or 15's with crits in the 20's or 30's at the very highest. Was not sure if editing the main page is such a good idea, so I started by posting here. --Gasher 14:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC) Equipment? Just a few wild thoughts while reading the AV info and talk pages. While looking at the stats of the equipment AV drops, I noticed they're all + or - 8. If AV surrounds the "7 virtues" wouldn't it make sence to make these stats + or - 7? If their intention was not to be 7 then why 8? Is there a factor we're missing? Also, and I know this has been some what brought up on KI, alla, and here but what if equipment is a factor? Such as the virtue weapons, the weapons from the 7 NMs in The Eldieme Necropolis. They're all related to the 7 deadly sins or 7 virtues. Or maybe we're putting in a little too much thought to all of this and it's something very simple. ^^ Natsuchii 04:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)